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Thread: Yeah, what are the odds against that happening...

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Pacific Palisades, California
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    73
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Martin View Post
    Attachment 2885



    Mike, going forward, please direct all your questions regarding the spinal engine theory, Dr. Gracovetsky and Dr. Dalton to Dr. Art Maffei. Thanks!

    BTW, how was the squirrel and salamanders? Everyone get enough?




    Jeff
    Jeff,

    Since you continue to involve me in this exchange I am compelled to respond and feel a few facts are in order.

    Thanks for the promotion, but the Dr. is not proper. My recently deceased brother Richard, and a former dean at Boston College's Carroll School of Management is still the only doctor in the family. After being granted my MS as a full time student, it was necessary for me to return to full time employment to meet family obligations at that time. However, returning to California allowed me to continue studies at UCLA and Cal Tech thru programs at their Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

    Since Operations Research and Statistics in the MS program augmented my original degree in mechanical engineering, it should now be obvious that my approach to this journey seeking 'golf truth' has been a sincere effort to always balance the involvement of a multitude of scientific specialties in a systematic manner.

    So, while as I said in the post provided, " I am a fan" but presently see 'The Spine Engine' NOT as a string of vertebrae, facets, and the attached ligaments and muscles, but just as one Sub-System of the golf swing being powered by an INTEGRATED Torso Rotary Spiral Spring System/Engine with MANY other engine SUB-systems yet to be defined and understood.

    In the meantime, as the fascia and tensegrity experts sort this out, will you please have the courtesy to contact me before posting potential misinformation about what I believe, think or stand for ? However, as stated in the last paragraph of "How Did You Get Here" on this site, I will always be available to share my most current findings with reasonable environment with reasonable people.

    For Michael, my door, phone and computer are always open.

    However for you Jeff, "the jury is still out", but maybe I am reading you, your loyal followers, and your motives incorrectly.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,096
    Quote Originally Posted by art View Post
    Jeff,

    Since you continue to involve me in this exchange I am compelled to respond and feel a few facts are in order.

    Thanks for the promotion, but the Dr. is not proper. My recently deceased brother Richard, and a former dean at Boston College's Carroll School of Management is still the only doctor in the family. After being granted my MS as a full time student, it was necessary for me to return to full time employment to meet family obligations at that time. However, returning to California allowed me to continue studies at UCLA and Cal Tech thru programs at their Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

    Since Operations Research and Statistics in the MS program augmented my original degree in mechanical engineering, it should now be obvious that my approach to this journey seeking 'golf truth' has been a sincere effort to always balance the involvement of a multitude of scientific specialties in a systematic manner.

    So, while as I said in the post provided, " I am a fan" but presently see 'The Spine Engine' NOT as a string of vertebrae, facets, and the attached ligaments and muscles, but just as one Sub-System of the golf swing being powered by an INTEGRATED Torso Rotary Spiral Spring System/Engine with MANY other engine SUB-systems yet to be defined and understood.

    In the meantime, as the fascia and tensegrity experts sort this out, will you please have the courtesy to contact me before posting potential misinformation about what I believe, think or stand for ?
    That won't be necessary, because I won't, and haven't, posted any "potential misinformation about what [you] believe, think or stand for". I posted your exact words and annotated them with my interpretation. That should be obvious, even to a non-PhD.

    Having a passing familiarity with Dr. Gracovetsky's spinal engine theory, and having read and re-read what you "presently see", my opinion is unchanged: what you described in the annotated post ("the more complicated fascia and potentially now, tensegrity structures in the torso") is Gracovetsky's spine engine, whether you call it that or not.


    However, as stated in the last paragraph of "How Did You Get Here" on this site, I will always be available to share my most current findings with reasonable environment with reasonable people.

    For Michael, my door, phone and computer are always open.

    However for you Jeff, "the jury is still out", but maybe I am reading you, your loyal followers, and your motives incorrectly.
    My motives should be obvious: exposing the dreadful state of golf instruction, epitomized by Finney, Manzella and Shields, as well as most, if not all, of the "name" instructors, and bemoaning the dreadful ignorance and bias among the so-called researchers of the biomechanics of the golf swing. I certainly give you credit for trying to sort things out in a reasonable way, but I think you have a very naive view of what BBKIB, or any other "magic bullet" approach, can achieve, and are wasting your time focusing on anything before having a concrete grasp on how the elites do it and why.

    BTW, I posed a couple questions for you a few days ago. I'd appreciate some answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Martin View Post
    OK, below are links to Kelvin's, Lucas's and Andre van Staden's Youtube channels, with many case studies of their students. Please identify for us the students who suffer from "significant dynamic instabilities from seeking ONLY distance and increased club head speed...at the expense of balance, accuracy, and of MOST IMPORTANCE for less skilled golfers, PROBABLE back injury".


    https://www.youtube.com/user/speedchain111

    https://www.youtube.com/user/AntiFlipGolf

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLH...ZvQLwvo4n0ZuQA


    Also, please link to case studies of Brian Manzella Golf Academy students who have incorporated the "push up toward the left ear" instruction and transformed their games.



    Jeff

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,096
    Art-

    I looked up Dr. Dalton's "spiral spring" systems that you mention, specifically the anterior and posterior spiral springs (ASS and PSS), that augment Dr. Gracovetsky's spinal engine theory. At first glance, they reflect the critical muscles in the second fire. So, it would seem to me that your "Torso Rotary Spiral Spring System/Engine" is more or less a combination of the two power producing phases as Kel has defined them. Sounds reasonable to me.


    spring systems.PNG




    Jeff

  4. #34
    There is and always will be a timing/artistic element to the golf swing that will never be captured or understood completely by science.

    For example, how hard did Picasso press down with his brush? What angle did he use on the canvas? How did he hold his paint brush? Did he sit or stand? Did he use his hands or shoulders?

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