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Thread: Nice to see some original thinking emerge from the rubble of The Land of the Blind...

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Nice to see some original thinking emerge from the rubble of The Land of the Blind...

    Although we know the upper body/spine/pelvis initiates the move towards the target during transition, Kwon/Manzella mistakenly attribute it to the feet:

    Screen Shot 2015-01-10 at 1.17.42 AM.png

    Screen Shot 2015-01-10 at 1.13.46 AM.png

    Screen Shot 2015-01-10 at 12.53.07 AM.png


    tongzilla asks the obvious question:

    Screen Shot 2015-01-10 at 12.56.32 AM.png


    Bman is confused:

    Screen Shot 2015-01-10 at 12.58.21 AM.png


    tongzilla obliges:

    Screen Shot 2015-01-10 at 1.10.31 AM.png


    Although tongzilla hasn't articulated it all that well, the point he is making is this: if the target-ward shift of the COP originates in the feet in mid-backswing, then why isn't the lead foot stomping down in mid-backswing? Obviously, because the target-ward shift originates in the upper body/spine/pelvis, not the feet. Of course, those upper body/spine/pelvis forces will travel down the trail leg and be reflected in the GRFs at the trail foot, but attributing those forces to movements originating in the feet is just bone stupid: that would trigger a premature fire of the right leg and hip, something great golfers, including Rory, obviously don't do. Par for the course from Bman.





    Jeff

  2. #2
    How does he see it during a lesson without a pressure mat? The next obvious question.

  3. #3
    Lloyd Higley Guest
    Once you train your eye Clay you see everything

  4. #4
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    Clay-

    What I found very satisfying is that tongzilla used a rear view video of Rory McIlroy to support his position:




    Almost five years ago, Kelvin made identical observations using this rear view of Rory!!!:





    Kelvin's full article, Revisiting the Kinetic Link Principle, is here:

    http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyl...etic-link.html



    Baby steps...






    Jeff

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Higley View Post
    Once you train your eye Clay you see everything
    Even what isn't visible!!! Bman reveals that he also has x-ray vision:

    Screen Shot 2015-01-10 at 1.00.33 PM.png


    Quote:

    In the swing you posted above, Rory is making a typical move of the great ball strikers, like Jack Nicklaus....he is "out twisting" in his right foot in transition...

    Screen Shot 2015-01-10 at 1.04.00 PM.png



    Can't make this stuff up...






    Jeff

  6. #6
    Of everything I've ever read of Brian, this highlights his ignorance the most!

  7. #7
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    Jeff

    There's a Trackman University Workshop on January 20th with Brian Manzella, Fredrik Tuxen and Darren May. Only costs $475. Have you signed up yet?


    I would be more entertained if you went, taped it and asked lots of questions, just so we could listen to the answers!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Lucas View Post
    Jeff

    There's a Trackman University Workshop on January 20th with Brian Manzella, Fredrik Tuxen and Darren May. Only costs $475. Have you signed up yet?


    I would be more entertained if you went, taped it and asked lots of questions, just so we could listen to the answers!
    Better off taking your William McKinley and running it over with a lawn mower.





    3JACK

  9. #9
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    OK, let's recap

    Here are the statements that's got Manzella boxed into a corner:

    recap 1.PNG



    As "proof", Bman this afternoon posted 11 pairs of images that, he claims, makes it "PAINFULLY OBVIOUS that he does...everything I said in the early post". He calls them "Great stuff". Here are two key sets of images:

    manz.PNG

    manz 3.PNG


    What's "PAINFULLY OBVIOUS" is that movements originating in the hip joints, spine and pelvis after the end of the takeaway are responsible for the counter-clockwise ground reaction moment, or torque, as well as the shift of the COP towards the target. And, of course, these movements are "PAINFULLY OBVIOUS" to anyone familiar with the backswing sequence of great swingers and easily seen on video.

    Manzella's own images show that the feet, particularly the right foot, are not "ALREADY STARTING TO MOVE IN THE 'downswing direction' —laterally toward the target and rotationally toward the target—well before the club gets anywhere near what folks would call the top". The right foot continues to "want" to move away from the target all the way to the top of the backswing. That clockwise twisting will, of course, cause a counter-clockwise ground reaction moment.

    What is happening, and is easy to see on video, is that, after the end of the takeaway when the shaft is more or less horizontal, the right hip begins to internally rotate, using the ground as a brace, which causes the sacrum to move towards the target, taking the COM and COP with it. Those movements are responsible for what's happening at the the feet and the COP, not, as Manzella foolishly claimed, the feet themselves.






    Jeff

  10. #10
    This is so ignorant I can't even believe it. "You can't see it on video", but he posts video stills? Wow

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon Russell View Post
    This is so ignorant I can't even believe it. "You can't see it on video", but he posts video stills? Wow
    Not only 2D video stills, but with lines drawn on them! Heavens!!!




    Jeff

  12. #12
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    When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging...

    Does anyone know what Manzella is talking about here?

    manz 4.PNG


    Nobody ever had what correct? That a clockwise pressure on the right foot would cause a counter-clockwise ground reaction moment? Who could have gotten that "wrong"? It's obvious! Kelvin pointed out this movement five years ago: he called it the "right foot wiggle":

    wiggle.PNG

    http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyl...etic-link.html


    At the same time, Kel showed how the hips move towards the target in the second half of the backswing which, of course, would cause the COM/COP to move towards the target. It's the obvious result if you understand the movements. You don't need pressure plates to figure this out.

    Here is the front view GIF showing both the "wiggle" and the COM shift:






    Are the folks who never "had this correct" the same people as the "science haters"?






    Jeff

  13. #13
    The lateral fascial lines create this in transition. This is old news, cart before the horse AGAIN!

  14. #14
    Lloyd Higley Guest
    WOW you are right... You can't make this stuff up

  15. #15
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    It amazese what comes out of his mouth. He doesn't think at all about what he is saying.

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