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Thread: Here's a question for Bman and Phil Cheetham...

  1. #1
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    Here's a question for Bman and Phil Cheetham...

    When do Ryder Cup star Ian Poulter's hips stop turning? Do they stop before impact, like the kinetic chain theory dictates, or do they keep rotating through impact??

    In the video below, there is a good rear view starting at 0:58, and Ian has what looks like a white player's badge on his waistband that makes his hip rotation easy to track.




    The first picture below is two frames before impact. As I frame-by-frame, I don't see the white badge slow until the picture on the far right, two frames after impact:

    Screen Shot 2012-11-18 at 1.14.48 AM.png


    So, do I need wired 6DOF 3D to tell me this video is wrong? Or does this 30fps video blow some holes in Cheetham's kinetic chain theory? And it isn't even from a miserable Casio!

    BTW, don't forget that Ian's swing is a Silver Medal winner!

    http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyl...ont-view-.html


    Jeff

  2. #2
    But Jeffy, you should know by now, you can only tell with a graph. Your own eyes mean nothing.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrevs View Post
    But Jeffy, you should know by now, you can only tell with a graph. Your own eyes mean nothing.
    No, no, no. Just a graph won't do it. You can only tell from an academic study of 14 unidentified golfers wearing spandex, hitting foam balls with the same club, indoors in a lab, with wires dangling all over the place, then let ten grad students crunch numbers for six months, then wait three months for peer review, then pay $30 for the paper and find out it doesn't tell you anything useful, at best just confirms stuff you already knew. But, hey, it's science!!!



    Jeff

  4. #4
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    The best minds in golf respond...

    ...with name calling.


    Screen Shot 2012-11-18 at 3.50.51 PM.png



    Jeff

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Martin View Post
    ...with name calling.


    Screen Shot 2012-11-18 at 3.50.51 PM.png



    Jeff
    You live in a glass house Jeff?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloran View Post
    You live in a glass house Jeff?
    Finney should know a lot about mental retardation because he is probably at least mildly retarded himself. Ever see video of him trying to ask a question at an Anti-Summit? Scary...

    Name calling certainly has its place, but how about, in addition, at least trying to offer some semblance of a counter-argument? To imply that you can track reflexive markers with a MATT system to analyze motion but can't track a player's badge or belt loop in a video to do a similar analysis is no kind of argument at all. I don't know what to call it: stupid, ignorant, desperate, "full retard"? None seem to do it justice.



    Jeff

  7. #7
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    OK, Brian...

    Screen Shot 2012-11-18 at 5.09.00 PM.png


    Show me Poulter's data and let's see how really, really, REALLY decelerated his hips and shoulders are through impact. Put up or shut up...


    Jeff

  8. #8
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    Here's another good view of Ian's hips...

    Watch the belt loops: when do the hips really, really, REALLY decelerate? Before impact or after?







    Jeff

  9. #9
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    Oh, Mike, I apologize for not responding to the Leitz chart last night, but that's more or less the same TPI data of an unknown tour pro or pros that has been around for years. We know plenty of tour players decel, that's easy enough to see on video. We just don't believe they all do. That's why I want Pouter's data.



    Jeff

  10. #10
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    Spent a day ay Xcitex learning the ProAnalyst package...

    One of the training exercises was tracking Poulter's hips. Yep, they accelerate until impact.



    Jeff

  11. #11
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    So, now that Bman has thoughtfully posted three MATT analyses...

    ...there is another question for Brian and Cheetham: why do ALL THREE MATT subjects ACCELERATE the torso into impact, with two achieving peak rotation well past impact? Doesn't that violate the "distal-to-proximal" requirement of the kinetic sequence theory?

    Also, why do the TPI data and MATT data disagree so much? The TPI data is almost 2X the MATT data. Huh? I thought you guys were scientists...



    Jeff

  12. #12
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    I can hear the wheels starting to creak into motion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Martin View Post
    ...there is another question for Brian and Cheetham: why do ALL THREE MATT subjects ACCELERATE the torso into impact, with two achieving peak rotation well past impact? Doesn't that violate the "distal-to-proximal" theory?

    Also, why do the TPI data and MATT data disagree so much? The TPI data is almost 2X the MATT data. Huh? I thought you guys were scientists...



    Jeff

    The keen-eyed Natep also sees something is amiss between the MATT and TPI data, though...


    Screen Shot 2012-11-22 at 10.04.05 PM.png



    Doesn't seem to trouble The One-Eyed Manzella or the rest of the best minds in golf...



    Jeff

  13. #13
    Bman's up to something. Asking if anyone has a 3D kinematic graph of Sadlowski on FB. Maybe he wants to keep proving himself wrong?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrevs View Post
    Bman's up to something. Asking if anyone has a 3D kinematic graph of Sadlowski on FB. Maybe he wants to keep proving himself wrong?

    He also seems to have been finally made aware of the importance of the reference used when calculating velocity, which is both speed and direction, but, of course, doesn't understand it sufficiently to say anything substantive ("ant on a record player"???). The fact that the entire Project 1.68 team missed the blatant contradiction between the MATT data and both the TPI data and the kinematic sequence theory says all you need to know about their collective brain power.


    Jeff

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrevs View Post
    Bman's up to something. Asking if anyone has a 3D kinematic graph of Sadlowski on FB. Maybe he wants to keep proving himself wrong?

    Even Jeff Mann is shredding Bman and crew...


    http://newtongolfinstitute.proboards...lay&thread=392




    Jeff

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